This podcast was generated by NotebookLM, after being fed a bunch of articles about and interviews with beloved mycologist and social activist, Paul Stamets (and a little bit of information on Social Mycelialism)…
Welcome to another deep dive. We've got some really uh really fascinating research to dig into today.
Yeah, should be fun.
It's all about the incredible world of fungi and mycelium. Specifically, um the work of Paul Stamets.
Oh, wow. Yeah. Stamets. He's uh he's quite a visionary, isn't he?
Absolutely. He's a mycologist who sees this vast potential in this kingdom that a lot of people just kind of overlook.
Yeah. I feel like fungi are just having a moment right now, too.
Yeah, for sure.
Like everyone's suddenly realizing how important they are.
Yeah. And you know, you actually sent me some of his work and I'm really excited to dig into it, especially his understanding of mycelial growth and its importance to the ecosystem.
Yeah. And I'm curious to see how all of that connects to the concept of Social Mycelialism, too.
Yes, that's right. You, the listener, you coined that term and I love it. We are definitely going to be exploring that.
It's pretty amazing how it all ties together.
So, let's start with the basics. In his work, Stamets calls mycelium nature's internet. Why that comparison?
Well, But you know, mycelium is this network of fungal threads that spreads underground, right? And it connects plants and trees in this like web of communication and resource sharing.
Wow.
It's like transmitting nutrients, water, even information.
Really? So, it's like a communication network almost.
Yeah. It really does function like a natural internet.
That is wild. It's incredible to think that this hidden network is thriving right beneath our feet.
Yeah. And it's been doing that for a really, really long time.
I was reading that in one study, Stamets even points to the oldest confirmed multicellular organism in the fossil record.
A 2.4 billion year old mycelial network.
Yeah, that's a game changer, isn't it?
It is.
I mean, that really shifts our perspective on the history of life on Earth.
Like fungi through their mycelial networks, they've been around for way longer than we tend to realize. Right.
Right.
And they predate and, you know, potentially even pave the way for animal life.
It makes you wonder about the role of interconnectedness. Yeah.
In the evolution of life itself.
Totally.
It's fascinating. Stamets even describes these mycelial networks as being made up of billions of tiny scientists at the tips.
Oh yeah.
Constantly exploring and adapting.
That's such a great analogy.
It is, isn't it?
It highlights the decentralized intelligence of mycelium.
Yeah. Because this network isn't reliant on a single control center, is it?
No, not at all. It's constantly processing information and responding to its environment, right?
In this highly resilient and adaptive way.
Exactly.
I mean, that resilience is especially important when you consider the environmental challenges that our world faces.
Absolutely.
And Stamets argues that mycelial networks are essential for fighting climate change, which makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, these networks store massive amounts of carbon, which helps regulate our planet's climate, right?
So, nurturing healthy and diverse mycelial networks. It's as vital as planting trees when we think about a sustainable future.
It's amazing how something that we often overlook and play such a critical role in the health of our planet. Stamets doesn't stop there, though. He also sees this immense potential in mushrooms for medicine, going beyond the well-known example of penicillin.
Oh, for sure.
Everyone knows that one.
Yeah. He's particularly passionate about the antiviral and anti-bacterial properties of various mushrooms. Especially polypores.
And polypores are they're a type of mushroom that often grows on trees.
Oh, okay.
And they're known for their like uh they have a really hard woody texture.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah. Fascinating stuff.
He's got this really amazing story about working with the Bioshield program.
Oh, yeah.
Which is a government initiative that focuses on biodefense.
Uhhuh.
And he found that the agarikon mushroom had potent antiviral activity against smallpox.
It's incredible. It's like nature has these powerful solutions to even some of our most daunting challenges.
It's true.
But it also raises the question of how we manage such potent discoveries like what are the ethical considerations when research intersects with like you know national security concerns.
That is a really good point.
Yeah.
You know Stamets’ work isn't just about scientific discovery. It's about navigating the complexities of how those discoveries impact our world.
For sure.
He's also done some interesting work on how mushrooms might help save the bees.
Oh yeah. That's such important work.
It is. Key populations are facing this major crisis, right?
Yeah. Colony collapse disorder. It's a huge problem
due to colony collapse disorder.
Yeah.
But Stamets’ research shows that extracts from certain polypore mushrooms like amadou (Fomes) and reishi (Ganoderma) can drastically reduce the viruses that are harming bee colonies.
It's amazing.
That's incredible. How do you even give mushrooms to bees?
It's actually really quite ingenious. So, the extracts are incorporated into the bees sugar water, which mimics their natural feeding habits and makes it easy for them to ingest and it acts like this natural antiviral boost for their immune systems.
That's so cool. It seems like Stamets is constantly finding ways to connect the dots between the fungal world and solutions to some of our biggest problems.
Yeah, he's a real pioneer. I mean, he's constantly pushing the boundaries of what we thought we knew about fungi.
But I'm also curious about how all of this ties back to your concept of Social Mycelialism.
Oh, yeah. That's where things get really interesting because you know you the listener you came up with this concept and it's incredibly insightful and you know Stamets doesn't explicitly use the term Social Mycelialism but his work constantly emphasizes the interconnectedness of nature, and he sees that interconnectedness not just in the soil but also in human societies, he even makes this bold statement I think psilocybin mushrooms make people nicer people.
I love that quote.
It's pretty bold.
It is.
What he’s discussing is that these mushrooms through their effects on the brain could increase empathy and connection.
Yeah.
Which could lead to positive social change.
That's the idea.
It's a provocative idea. Definitely
And while more research is definitely needed, some studies do suggest that psilocybin can promote pro-social behaviors and reduce aggression.
It's amazing.
So, Stamets is asking us to consider how these insights from the fungal kingdom might help us create a more compassionate and connected world.
That is such a power powerful thought. He's really urging us to look to nature, to the interconnectedness of mycelial networks for inspiration in building a better future.
Yeah. It's a beautiful vision, isn't it?
It is.
Like he sees the potential for a real paradigm shift. Totally.
Like a move away from systems that are built on competition and hierarchy, right, towards models that embrace collaboration and the power of networks.
So, how do we actually take those inspiring ideas about mycelial networks and apply them to complex human systems. That's where things get really interesting.
Exactly. And that's what we'll be exploring next as we delve deeper into the concept of Social Mycelialism.
I can't wait. Okay. So, we've established that mycelial networks are incredibly resilient and adaptable, able to thrive in all sorts of environments.
Definitely.
But how does that translate to human societies? It seems like a big leap, you know.
Yeah, it is a big leap. And I think it's important to acknowledge that, you know, we can't just copy and paste the structure of a mycelial network onto human society, right?
I mean, we're dealing with a different level of complexity.
But I think Stamets’ work invites us to consider the underlying principles of these networks.
Okay. So, what are those principles? Yeah.
And how might we apply them to, you know, the challenges that we're facing today?
Well, one key principle is decentralization.
Okay.
Mycelium doesn't have a central brain or a command center, right?
It's a distributed network where information and resources flow freely. Okay.
And Stamets argues that we could learn from this model particularly when it comes to information sharing and decision making.
That's interesting. But you know a lot of our current systems especially in government and large organizations are very centralized.
Yeah.
How would a more decentralized approach even work in practice?
That's a big question and there's no easy answer, right?
But imagine a world where communities had more autonomy, where decision-making power was distributed more widely.
Okay. Yeah. It could lead to more resilient and responsive systems, you know, better able to adapt to change.
Stamets even draws a parallel between mycelial networks and the early internet which was also designed to be decentralized.
Exactly. The internet was initially conceived as this distributed network, resistant to censorship and control. But over time, it's become more centralized with a handful of companies controlling vast amounts of data, right? And influencing how we interact online. is true.
So, Stamets believes we could learn from the mycelium and reimagine the internet as a more equitable and resilient digital ecosystem.
So, we're talking about a pretty radical shift. Yeah.
In how we think about power and control, moving away from hierarchical structures toward more collaborative and distributed models. But doesn't that go against human nature?
I mean, aren't we competitive by nature?
That's a common assumption.
Yeah.
But Stamets argues that cooperation is just as much a part of human nature as competition. And he believes that psilocybin, the psychoactive compound found in certain mushrooms, could play a role in helping us tap into our capacity for empathy and interconnectedness.
He's not suggesting that we all start microdoing psilocybin to become better citizens, is he?
Not exactly. He's cautious about making sweeping generalizations.
But he does believe that psilocybin can help us experience a profound sense of interconnectedness. You know, dissolving the boundaries between self and other.
I can see that. And that experience, he argues, can have a lasting impact on how we relate to the world and to each other.
You mentioned earlier that some studies have shown psilocybin to increase post-social behaviors.
Yeah.
Is there really scientific evidence to support this idea?
There's a growing body of research exploring the potential therapeutic benefits of psilocybin. Okay.
And some studies have shown promising results in terms of reducing anxiety, depression, and addiction.
Wow, that's amazing.
There's also research suggesting that psilocybin can increase empathy, compassion, and a sense of connection to nature.
So, it's not just about feeling good. It's about how those feelings might translate into real world changes in behavior.
Precisely.
Okay.
It's about how these experiences could help us cultivate the qualities we need to build a more just and sustainable world.
I like that.
Qualities like empathy, compassion, cooperation, and a sense of interconnectedness.
It's almost like we need a new operating system for humanity.
Yeah.
One that's based on the principles of the mycelial network.
That's a powerful way to put it. Yeah.
Our current systems with their emphasis on individualism and competition are really struggling to address the complex challenges that we face.
That's true.
So maybe it's time to look to nature to the wisdom of the fungal kingdom for inspiration.
But how do we go from these, you know, inspiring ideas to practical action?
How do we actually start building a Social Mycelialism?
That's the million-dollar question. And there's no single answer, no one-size-fits-all solution. But I think it starts with awareness. with recognizing that we're all part of a larger interconnected web of life and from there we can start to experiment with new ways of relating to each other and to the world around us.
What would that look like in practice? Can you give us some concrete examples?
Certainly. One example is the rise of community- based initiatives such as community gardens, cooperative businesses, and local food systems.
Yeah. Yeah.
These are all examples of people coming together to create more resilient and sustainable ways of living.
So it's about shifting our focus from individual solutions to collective action, from competition to collaboration.
Exactly.
And that shift requires a change in mindset. It requires us to embrace the interconnectedness that Stambits talks about to see ourselves as part of a larger whole. And maybe that's where the real potential of SM lies. Yeah.
It's not just about adopting the structure of a mycelial network. It's about embodying its core principles.
Resilience, adaptability, decentralized intelligence, and perhaps most importantly interconnectedness.
Absolutely. And it's about recognizing that those principles aren't just abstract concepts. They're embodied in the natural world in the intricate and on inspiring web of life that connects us all.
It's a beautiful and humbling thought, isn't it? That something as seemingly simple as a mushroom could hold the key to a more just and sustainable future.
It certainly is. And it speaks to the power of looking beyond our human centric perspective. and finding inspiration in the wisdom of nature.
So, what does this all mean for you, deep diver? How can you take these insights and apply them to your own life and community?
That's a great question.
I think it starts with a shift in perspective.
Okay.
How can you start to see yourself as part of a larger web of life rather than a separate and isolated individual
and how can you start to nurture the connections in your own community, supporting initiatives that promote collaboration and resilience?
Maybe it's about volunteering at a local community garden, supporting a cooper ative business or simply having more meaningful conversations with your neighbors.
It's about recognizing that even small actions can have a ripple effect contributing to a larger movement towards a more interconnected and sustainable world.
Exactly. And it's about remembering that we're all in this together. We're all part of the same network, interconnected and interdependent.
So let's take a moment to reflect on that interconnectedness.
Yeah.
What stands out to you from this deep dive?
What has surprised you?
How does the concept of social ism resonate with you and what steps, even small ones, can you take to bring these ideas to life in your own life and community?
You know, it feels like we're at a crossroads right now.
Yeah, I agree.
We can continue down this path of individualism and competition, right?
Or we can choose a different path.
Yeah.
One that embraces collaboration and interconnectedness.
Exactly.
And Stamets’ work with mycelium really offers this powerful metaphor for this alternative path.
It does.
He's showing us that Nature has already solved many of the problems that we are struggling with. Problems like climate change.
Yeah, for sure.
Resource scarcity and even social disharmony big time.
Now, he's not suggesting that we literally become mushrooms, is he?
No, of course not.
Okay, good.
But he's inviting us to think differently, to see the world through this lens of interconnectedness. To recognize that our actions have ripple effects.
Yeah.
Throughout the entire web of life.
For sure.
So, what What are some concrete steps we can take to move towards a more mycelial way of being? What does SM look like in action?
Well, I think it starts with small everyday choices, like supporting local businesses that operate with a cooperative ethos, volunteering our time and skills to community-based initiative, choosing to connect with our neighbors and build stronger local networks.
So, it's about shifting our focus from individual gain into collective well-being.
Exactly. It's about understanding that our personal success is intertwined with the success of our community and the health of our planet.
That's beautiful. It's about recognizing that we're all part of something much larger than ourselves.
Absolutely. And that our actions, no matter how small, can contribute to a more sustainable and just future.
So, as we wrap up this deep dive, I'm curious to hear your final thoughts.
Yeah.
What has resonated with you the most about Stamets work and the concept of SM? What has surprised you? What new questions has it raised for you?
I think for me, it's the reminder that nature has so much to teach us. Yeah.
If we're willing to listen, perhaps most importantly, what seeds of inspiration are you taking away from this exploration? What small steps can you take today to cultivate a more mycelial way of being in your own life?
I don't know. Maybe try connecting with someone you haven't talked to in a while. Offer to help a neighbor with something. Just small acts of kindness and connection.
It's true. You never know the ripple effects.
Yeah, exactly.
Remember, the mycelial network is constantly growing and adapting.
Yeah, it's a reminder that change is always possible and even small acts of connection and collaboration can have a profound impact on the world around us.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
So, keep exploring, keep connecting, and keep nurturing the network. Until next time, happy deep diving.
Share this post